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Coasting in Retirement Ep 28: Sequence of Returns Risk and the 4% Withdrawal Rule Thumbnail

Coasting in Retirement Ep 28: Sequence of Returns Risk and the 4% Withdrawal Rule

Segment 1 (Show Open): 

Good afternoon, everyone! Welcome in. Welcome to Coasting in Retirement! That’s. Right. Thanks for joining us today, we’re excited to have you! Josh Null here, joined by the one and only Michelle Lee Melton, the Cheech to my Chong, the Bill to my Ted…Michelle, how are you doing? We are back again in Coastal College’s recording studio, beautiful downtown Fairhope, ready to put together another a great show for those of you tuning in!

Listeners: Michelle and I are here today to discuss financial topics relevant to those of you in or near retirement, living your best life along our part of the gulf coast. Here’s what we’ve got in store for you today: First segment – deep dive on our topic of the day. 2nd segment - at about 20 minutes past the hour - fan favorite, “Michelle with the News of the Week”. 3rd segment, roughly 40 minutes past the hour,” Josh’s Crystal Ball and…(Michelle:) Big Mouth”. That’s right, big mouth. So buckle up, we’ve got a lot to get to!

Quick background on me for those new to the show. Again, my name is Josh Null, I am a fee-based financial advisor, I hold my FINRA Series 65 securities license, and I am the owner of Gulf Coast Financial Advisors, an independent investment management and financial planning firm with offices in Fairhope and Orange Beach, Alabama. You can find more information on me and Gulf Coast Financial Advisors by visiting our website gulfcoastfa.com, or feel free to give us a call at 251-327-2124. If you missed that, don’t worry, we will repeat our contact info several times throughout the show!

So Michelle, today we’re going to be incorporating 2 of my favorite subjects, math and history, into our discussion, which means were heading straight to nerdville. But I promise you and our listeners that this will be one of the most important episodes we’ve ever done, so I’ll ask you both to hang in there thru some of the more jargony terms. Today’s episode is about what’s called Sequence of Returns Risk, a term that may be unfamiliar to some of our listeners, and we will also discuss how this risk ties into what’s called the 4% withdrawal rate rule, that is a term that many of you in or near retirement have probably heard of. 

Why are these 2 concepts so important for those of you in or near retirement? Because, as you will learn, if you don’t put a plan in place to handle sequence of returns risk, coupled with an appropriate withdrawal rate, it could deduct years, maybe decades, off the life of your investment portfolio. And while it’s important to describe these concepts, what matters even more is what investors can actually do about it, so we’ll end our segment with 3 ways to protect against these types of threats to your portfolio.

So let’s start with a definition of sequence of returns risk. Michelle will recognize this concept from some seminars I’ve done, specifically when we compare 2 brothers that retired with the same amount of money, but in different decades. Basically, here’s the premise: while the average return of your investment portfolio is very important for the longevity of your money in retirement, what has a greater impact on that longevity is the timing of those returns, particularly for those of you that retire into a down market or possibly into a pro-longed recession. 

Let me illustrate this. At our educational events, I often use a comparison chart of 2 fictional brothers to demonstrate the mathematical impact of sequence of return risk, but since our listeners can’t see a slide deck, allow me to describe it. We use 2 made-up brothers – Steve and Bill – who both retire with $500k in their retirement accounts, and with both planning on taking a 6% withdrawal every year: 

Also to keep our comparison apples to apples, we benchmark both of the brother’s portfolios using historical data from the Dow Jones Industrial Average. So, $500k in their account, 6% withdrawal rate, and Dow Jones, for both, got it? Now, here comes the key difference between the 2 brothers’ situation. Steve is a little older than Bill, so he retires in 1990, and based on actual historical market returns over the next 10 years, he finishes 1999 with about a 16% average market return for the decade AND about $1.2M left in his account. Not bad, right? 

Younger brother Bill sees how his big brother is crushing it in retirement, so he decides to play follow the leader and retire with his own $500k. Bill retires exactly 10 years after Steve, in 2000, and unfortunately for Bill, his timing isn’t great. The Dow is down 5 out of the 10 years from 2000 to 2010, and while Bill still manages to scratch out an average gain of about 5.5% for the decade, he enters 2010 with only $156k in his portfolio!! Same starting point, same withdrawal rate, same measuring system, but radically different results - how did Steve end up with over a million dollars while Bill’s portfolio is headed towards a wipeout?

Welcome to sequence of returns risk, folks. And as opposed to some of the end-of-the-world nonsense that gets thrown at you in many investment presentations or seminars, this is actual cold, hard math. Again, the average rate of return matters over a period of time, but what matters more is the timing of those returns. And unfortunately for brother Bill, he retired at a terrible time, right into the dot.com bust, then 9/11, then the housing market crash. In fact, even though the market rallied strongly for 3 of these 10 years, with the Dow up over 25% in 2003 alone, the damage had already been done. Bill’s first 3 years of retirement featured returns of over -6%, then -7%, then a whopper in 2002 when the Dow was down nearly 17% for the year. Then another huge hit in 2008. And that was all it took – 4 bad market years at the beginning of Bill’s retirement to knock decades off the longevity of his portfolio. 

For those of you with more than $500k in your portfolio, say $1M, or $2M or more, the math bears out the same proportionally. We’ll reference an article later in the show that does a case study with a $1M dollar portfolio. So what could Bill have done differently in this scenario? Well, for one, he obviously could have saved more money or delayed retirement until the market recovered, but waiting on a market recovery would involve him being able to see into the future, and unfortunately, not me, or Michelle, or any hotshot stock picker can predict with 100% accuracy when the stock market is going to cooperate with your retirement plans. With that said, the one thing that Bill does have the most control over is his withdrawal rate, and for the next part of this segment, we are going to explain why that is so important, and how it ties into sequence of returns.

Your retirement withdrawal rate is quite simply, the percentage of money you take out in withdrawals relative your total account balance. Say you have a $1M dollars in your retirement account, and you take $50K in withdrawals the first year, that is withdrawal rate of 5%. Got it? Now here’s where it gets interesting. Let’s say you take a 5% withdrawal in the first year, and your portfolio has a total return of 6%, resulting in a slight gain of 1% for the year. That works, right? But remember what happened to Brother Bill? What if you take this 5% out the next year, but your portfolio loses 10% of its value? What if it loses more than 5% the year after that? You following me now? Not only do you have to pay attention to your investment sequence of returns, you also have to pay attention to your withdrawal rates. A double whammy of a large withdrawal coupled with a down market can devastate a portfolio. And it leads us into the most well-known withdrawal rate study conducted in our industry, a financial advisor named William Bengen that published a study in 1994 that examined the effects of a 4% withdrawal rate on retirement accounts.

Many of you listening are nodding your heads, you’ve heard of the 4% rule. Before we dive into the nuts and guts of this rule, let me say this: there’s a wide variety of concepts and attitudes about withdrawal rates, even though many advisors use 4% as a basic benchmark, even its author William Bengen would argue that depending on when someone retired, they would be safe with a 7% withdrawal rate, heck, in times of high interest rates, he even referenced 13% at one time. Other studies point to an even lower rate, some as low as 1.5%. And lord help us with you annuity sales guys & gals that use inflated return of principal numbers in your illustrations. The point is, there is a lot of debate around this issue. 

Our Steve and Bill comparison didn’t get into the messing details of inflation and interest rates, or even factor in social security, so with our withdrawal rate, we’re going to introduce what’s called “real return” that factors in inflation and discuss what is considered a “safe” withdrawal rate that can withstand any sequence of returns risk. This, Michelle, is the part where history comes into play. 

So listeners, remember that William Bengen’s study was done in 1994, well before the dot.com crash, or 9/11, or the housing market crash, or Covid, etc. Bengen’s analysis included and highlighted the 3 worst stock market periods in the 1900’s. Bengen also used astronomy to describe the market, which is kind of fun. Those time periods were 1929-1931, what he called the “Little Dipper” that marked the beginning of the Great Depression; 1937-1941, what he called the “Dig Dipper” that marked the tail end of the Great Depression, and finally, what he called the “Big Bang” which was a time period right before Michelle and I were born, 1973-1974. 

Bengen added both the overall loss of the stock market during these time periods AND the average inflation rates to get to the real return. Adding inflation is important because savvy listeners may wonder why the stock market crash at the beginning of the Great Depression was only called the Little Dipper while the 70’s one was called the Big Bang. Well, that is because if you add in inflation, the worst overall portfolio performance would have actually been from 1973-1974, when the stock market was down 37% combined with 22% inflation, resulting in a negative 59% real return!! Michelle, with the cold war, and gas lines, and all the other crap of this time period, how in the world did our parents feel optimistic enough to produce us as babies? I’m 1975 vintage and your 1976 so maybe things were looking up by then, but man, if that doesn’t say there isn’t a perfect time to have kids, I don’t know what does. 

So, quickly: the stock market actually crashed the deepest during 1929, but there was actually deflation in the economy, prices actually fell 15%, so the real return was negative 45% vs a stock market that lost 61% of its value. For reference, the Big Dipper at the end of the Great Depression came in at negative 44% real return. All that is history now, and while history does not repeat itself, it can rhyme, so any of you all that had investments in 2000 / 2001, or 2008, or Spring 2020, you know how unnerving it is to see your accounts plummet, even if it’s just numbers on a screen or on a piece of paper. No, the most important takeaway from this history lesson is that William Bengen was able to show how a 4% withdrawal rate allowed for 30 years of portfolio longevity, even in in the worst of stock markets. That is, he ran multiple mathematical scenarios during the worst stock market time periods of the 1900, and in every instance, the 4% withdrawal rate demonstrated the ability to keep the portfolio alive for at least 30 years.

Does this mean that a 4% withdrawal rate will ALWAYS work? Of course not. Math is math but it’s hard to incorporate the full human effect to these studies. We’ll discuss in greater detail in our next segment. What it does mean, and our main takeaways, are this: 

  • Sequence of returns risk is a real, relevant threat to the longevity of your portfolio. 
  • A 4% withdrawal has been mathematically proven to survive the worst stock markets. But that doesn’t mean you just set it and forget it. Plus depending on the size of your nest egg, it may leave you living like a pauper
  • The financial planning software we use can help determine this withdrawal rate, but just as important, it can help determine your withdrawal strategy, that is, which accounts, and which assets, are being used to generate income
  • And finally, a good financial play will help you pick the types of assets should you own in retirement to generate the income and longevity you desire

Sequence of returns risk, withdrawal rates, which accounts to withdrawal from, what types of assets to own, these are all things we address with our financial planning process at GCFA. We approach our financial and retirement planning exercises with the goal of educating and enlightening our clients, and there’s never any pressure to make quick decisions or do business with us until you’re comfortable. You can set up an appointment by calling 251-327-2124, or you can reach us through our website gulfcoastfa.com. One our site, you can choose to send us a direct message, or click on the blue button in the upper right-hand corner to set up a 15-minute introductory phone call. Or do all 3!

Alright folks, coming up next - There’s always a lot going on in the world! Particularly the world of finance, investments and money. Every week Michelle and I scour the interwebs for helpful financial articles related to our topic of the day, especially articles that pertain to those in or near retirement. Join us after the break to hear Michelle and I discuss this week’s relevant headlines in our “Michelle with the News of the Week” segment. Stay tuned!

 Segment 2 - Michelle with the News of the Week:

Josh: “Welcome back to Coasting in Retirement, your host Josh Null here! As we discussed before the break, every week Michelle and I scour the interwebs for helpful financial articles related to our topic of the day, especially articles that pertain to those in or near retirement. Our job is to help you all understand how these headlines impact you, especially when it comes to your money! We also include the articles links on our show transcript, which you can find on our website gulfcoastfa.com under the podcast tab. So, without further adieu, here’s “Michelle with the news of the week!”:

1. Michelle: Alright Josh, let’s kick off with an article from InvestmentNews titled “The 4% rule is back, but it’s not really a rule”. The article references a recent Morningstar study that seems to agree with Bill Bengen’s 1994 study, showing that 4% is the “highest safe starting withdrawal rate for retirees” given that there is a 90% probability investors will still have money left in their portfolios after 30 years, assuming an initial allocation to equities of 20% to 40%. However, some financial advisors pushed back on this conclusion, with one even calling this advice “simple and dangerous” for retirees. I know we discussed withdrawal rates in the first segment, but we didn’t have time for you to expound on your financial planning process, so please fill us in on how you help your clients determine a sustainable withdrawal rate:

    Josh:. So here’s the thing. The advisor saying that oversimplifying the withdrawal rate can be dangerous is accurate. I mean, we’re talking about people’s life savings here, so every precaution should be taken. What it takes is some common sense combined with software that actually lets you consider as many different factors as possible. The commonsense part is realizing that nothing will be exactly the same year-to-year in retirement – was it always the same when you were working? – not inflation, not market returns, not your spending, not your expenses, etc. Now most people settle into a life style and have a certain small deviation from that lifestyle, so knowing that number is helpful, but at the end of the day our approach is 2 fold: first, we talk to our clients often, especially those in or near retirement, we help them determine their actual budget, we keep the notes in their file updated and our financial planning software caught up, then, 2nd, we tailor each retiree’s strategy to their specific situation. There is no one-size-fits-all strategy. I mean, in just this article, one advisor says closed-ended funds are the magic pill, another advisor says just buy an annuity and everything will be fine…I mean, I see why people can get confused. My recommendation for those of you in or near retirement is to find an fee-based or fee-only advisor, whether it’s us or not, that has access to ALL of the retirement planning tools and understands their financial planning software. And for the love of pete try to avoid people that say one product will solve all of your problems or folks with proprietary products to sell. That’s why we advocate for our fellow independent advisors, what your locally owned advisor may lack in name brand recognition they’ll more than make up with a fiduciary based financial plan tailored to your specific situation.  


    2. Michelle: Next up, our good buddy ol’ Chuck Schwab with a recent article titled “Timing Matters: Understanding Sequence-of-Returns Risk”. This article lays out a similar case study to our brothers Steve and Bill example, this time using a $1 million dollar portfolio and a 5% withdrawal rate as the base line, re-affirming just how devastating it can be to retire into a down market. This article also stresses how important it is to keep a reserve, possibly even cash you can tap to avoid selling investments in a down market. Lastly this article talks about “scaling back” in retirement if you get hit with sequence of returns and don’t have a plan to handle it – yuck! I don’t want to spend less in retirement, I want to spend MORE, so what can investors do to avoid having to adjust their lifestyle down in retirement??   

    Josh: So this comes back again to our common sense stance. A comprehensive financial plan is just that – comprehensive – and there can be a lot of moving parts and data to comprehend. But for the majority of folks looking to retire or in retirement, their number 1 concern is “do I have enough money to last the rest of my life at a lifestyle I can enjoy?”, so one of the first things we’re going to do is an income solve. That is, how can we take the bucket of assets you bring to the table, whether it’s a 401k, an IRA, social security, rental properties, pension, etc, and within reason develop a level of income that serves your needs for a prolonged period. And guess what – if we can’t find the source for this income vs your expenses then maybe you’re not ready to retire! That income solve is going to tie into your greater financial plan and is going to be the heartbeat of the plan – we want that thing beating strong and steady for as many years as possible, so we’re going to protect it as much as we can, which may include having significant cash on hand or possibly delaying social security to increase the total benefit. However the plan comes out, it will be adapted to YOUR needs and wants, because remember, our goal isn’t to help you attain a retirement you settle for, but for one your dream for. 251-327-2124. 


    3. Michelle: Alright Josh, for this next article, you totally warned me ahead of time that this was not really an article, and that including it in our headlines of the week was absolutely self-serving, so with that disclaimer, I present to you a section on a site called Right Capital, titled “Model Dynamic Retirement Spending with Ease”. So I do know that you use Right Capital as your financial planning software, and based on the withdrawal rate discussion we had in the opening segment, I recognized a lot of the terms on this article, but I think at the end of the day this is a way for you to toot your own horn, so have at it: 

    Josh: yes, guilty as charged. This is a great reference for those of you listening that are truly serious about your financial plan in retirement, not stressed or fearful, but wanting to put in the time to find the right person to help work with you so that you maximize in retirement all of the hard work you put in to get there. So back to Right Capital. I’m familiar with most established financial plans, and just like those, Right Capital is going to have options to project inflation adjusted numbers and do Monte Carlo projections, that is, what is the likelihood of success if we electronically run your financial plan through thousands of scenarios, but I think the ease of use Right Capital gives me as a planner to add things such guardrails, floors and ceilings, and what’s called the Retirement Spending Smile, which isn’t Michelle gleefully throwing cash at shoes in retirement but shows how retires tend to spend more at the very beginning and very end of retirement. 


    4. Michelle: Last article Josh. So we’ve discussed sequence of returns risk and withdrawal rates today, but my takeaway is that the real point of all of this is to help people not outlive their money, right? And I know you plan on working until you drop, but I don’t, and given that I have longevity in my family, especially on the Canadian side eh, I found a Forbes article that suits me just fine: “How to Plan For A Longer Retirement”. This article has a lot of common-sense advice that we’ve often discussed on this show, such as delaying social security or, yuck, working part time in retirement, but I found something new I don’t recall us talking about before, something the article calls “longevity insurance” and references something called a “QLAC”. Can you explain more? 

    Josh: Yes. So this article does a good job of common sense advice for retirees, things we talk about often on this show, such as possibly working part time or delaying social security, if you can, plus it also gives some updated life expectancy figures, which I always find interesting for some reason. But back to your question, Michelle, and I’ll admit, I had thought about a QLAC for a few years, so this was a good jog of my memory. I don’t particularly care for how they gave it a cute name of “longevity insurance”, as a side note, any time a insurance product is called by anything other than it’s true name, it’s a sales gimic – yes, I’m looking at you producers calling fixed index annuities “bond alternatives” – but the basics of a QLAC are solid. QLAC stands for Qualified Longevity Annuity Contract, and what it does is allow retirees to take either no more than 25% or $200k of their qualified plan assets and invest it into a deferred income annuity. This deferred income annuity has to start paying out income no later than age 85, so the primary immediate benefit is that the chunk of money your removed from your qualified accounts, say your rollover IRA, is now not part of your RMD calculation, so QLACs can be a useful tool for those folks that don’t need to take much out of their retirement accounts b/c they have other sources of income. If you’re listening and this describes you, give us a call at 251-327-2124 and we can discuss your individual situation further. That it? 


    Josh: Michelle, great job as always with the headlines, these are all important pieces of information that impacts those in or near retirement! Listeners – if you have questions around the topics in our headlines of the week, or questions related to your investment strategy or financial plan, why don’t you give us a call at 251-327-2124 to have a conversation or set up an appointment, or you can reach out to use via our contact page on our website gulfcoastfa.com.

    Alright folks, coming up next : Josh’s Crystal Ball and Big Mouth. What have been some of my predictions? Have I been right? Was I ever wrong? How wrong? What do I think is going to affect investors in the near future? We talk about all of these things and poke a little fun at my big mouth. Stay tuned! 

     Segment 3 – Josh’s Crystal Ball and Big Mouth: 

    Welcome back! Your host Josh Null here, along side co-host Michelle. So, I am opinionated, I have strong opinions at times, I would say a radio show host that isn’t probably wouldn’t be very interesting to listen to. And I am paid in my profession to offer professional guidance and opinions to my clients, otherwise what use am I? Sometimes I feel so strongly about something that I talk about it publicly, on the various podcasts and radio shows I’ve had, sometimes I’ll even make predictions, and while I usually proved right, there are times I swing and I miss. Want to hear me eat a little crow? Then let’s get at with Josh’s Crystal Ball and Big Mouth.   Alright Michelle, what’s first?

    1. Michelle: Alright Josh, as someone with extensive real estate and construction experience, you’ve often said that you get the appeal of house flipping, or finding passive income deals, especially to retirees that now have more time on their hands and are looking to generate extra income. And you’ve stated that you understand the appeal of the quote-unquote “free educational seminar” that is supposed to educate regular people on how to find, buy and flip real estate. But you draw the line on free seminars that lead into a paid service where the wannabe investor pays thousands, sometimes tens of thousands, of dollars to -learn the “secrets” of making easy money in real estate. Well, according to the interwebs, these seminars are still popular, in fact, I found one about tax liens being held at the Renaissance Hotel next month (https://www.eventbrite.com/e/tax-lien-live-event-mobile-tickets-848286476687?aff=ebdssbdestsearch), so what’s your big mouth got to say about retirees and real estate investing seminars? 

    Josh: I think you bring this up because you and I were recently watching one of my favorite shows, called The Deed, and it’s about a guy in New Orleans named Sydney Torres who is a real estate developer. The show premise is that Sydney comes in and saves the bacon of less experienced real estate flippers, and in one episode, the couple had spent $35k on a seminar like this – and they put it on their credit card!! So I guess first note, for those of you wanting to learn more about remodeling, construction and house flipping, I highly recommend The Deed, it only aired for 2 seasons but you can find both on the Peacock app. 

    Now, back to these seminars. Here’s the bottom line – always remember this – when someone says they have the secret sauce for something, whether its real estate or investments or whatever, the first question out of your mouth needs to be, if this is such as powerful formula, why in the world are you sharing it with me, and why do you need my money when you should be making money hand over fist? Yes, you can learn at these seminars, but just like the people that sell time-shares, more often than not there’s going to be a hard sell pitch, and unfortunately these folks tend to be really good at their jobs. They almost talked one of my clients into making real estate investments using his credit card! If you want to learn about real estate in retirement, do this instead – get your real estate license, get your local market in your blood, get to know the people making ethical deals, get to know contractors, build up your cash reserves, then when you have the knowledge, the money, and most importantly, some experience and some level of network connections, then make a flip. Don’t do it because some 20 something old hotshot with a fancy watch told you how cool using other people’s money is. 

    2. Michelle: Next up Josh, over a year ago we cautioned investors to be wary of Real Estate Investment Trusts, or REITs, that were heavily concentrated in commercial real estate. The thinking was that higher interest rates combined with a lingering work-from-home effect would make many commercial and office type of investments unprofitable. Well, according to recent article from Fox Business, roughly $929 billion worth of commercial real estate loans are set to mature this year, leaving borrowers with little choice but to refinance with significantly higher interest rates or sell their properties at a steep loss. This situation is also having downward pressure on bank stocks, so do you think that this will have a spillover affect that retail investors in or near retirement need to be overly concerned about? 


    Josh: Yes. I was very right on this, and I think it’s an issue that is bubbling beneath the surface that may explode late this year, particularly among regional banks. I’m not saying we’ve got another Silicon Bank or Signature Bank bank failure situation heading our way, but I am saying that investors need to pay attention to this.  Many property developers were crossing their fingers that the Fed was going to start reducing interest rates by now, but with recent inflation and employment numbers, that day just got pushed further off, and it would probably amaze most everyday investors just how close to the line these guys, and sometimes gals, push these deals. They set a lot of these deals up where they can just walk away from a property and not put the mother ship in danger, and there’s a potential domino effect coming unless the banking system can figure out a way to re-finance these nearly $1 trillion dollars of loans that are undoubtedly at a much lower interest rate than current offerings. It’s long past time to take a look at your real estate holdings folks, and we can help with that at GCFA, 251-327-2124. 

    3. Michelle: Last one Josh, and we’ve got to make it quick because we are short on time. On this show late last year, you predicted that both the stock market and cryptocurrency would have a tough beginning to 2024, yet all of the major stock market indexes are up this year, the price of Bitcoin has increased dramatically, along with a rising tide across most of the crypto market. So, you were obviously wrong in your prediction, care to explain why your crystal ball was so off? 

    Josh: Once again, just a reminder that when it comes to the stock market, there’s a reason I’m not a day trader or a market timer, instead I’m a long term financial planner, and when it comes to crypto, I’ll admit defeat for now, but I’ll say this, I think when all of this is said and done, we are witnessing the greatly wash-sale, artificial price inflation, financial musical chair operation in the history of mankind. Time will tell. 

    Well listeners, I hoped you enjoyed a peak behind the curtain on how I form my opinions and predictions, and more importantly, that I’m willing to admit when I am wrong. Which isn’t very often, but still.  Now, to our listeners that have more questions the various investments and topics we discussed in this segment, we invite you to reach out to us. Call us anytime at 251-327-2124 to make an appointment or find us at on our website at gulfcoastfa.com. 

    Folks, that’s it for us this week here at Coasting in Retirement! I want to give a huge thank you to my lovely co-host, Michelle Lee Melton, a thank you to our awesome radio station FM Talk 106.5 out of Mobile, many thanks to the provider of our show music, local band Sloth Racer, huge thank to the show producer, Mr. Chaesare Gray, and as always my sincere appreciation for all of your out there that have been listening and joining us on this journey. We would love to be a part of your journey as well! Until we talk again next Sunday, have a wonderful and productive week. This has been Coasting in Retirement with Josh Null! 


    Advisory products and services offered by Investment Adviser Representatives through Prime Capital Investment Advisors, LLC (“PCIA”), a federally registered investment adviser. PCIA: 6201 College Blvd., Suite#150, Overland Park, KS 66211. PCIA doing business as Prime Capital Wealth Management ("PCWM") and Qualified Plan Advisors (“QPA”). Certain services may be provided by PCIA affiliates. In this format, Josh Null provides general information, not individually targeted personalized advice, and is not liable for the usage of the information provided.  Exposure to ideas and financial vehicles should not be considered investment advice or a recommendation to buy or sell any of these financial vehicles.  This information should also not be considered tax or legal advice. Past performance is not a guarantee of future results. Investments will fluctuate and when redeemed may be worth more or less than when originally invested.